(no subject)

[sylvar]

DISCLAIMER: This is not a rant. I think Jodi is a good person. Why else would I be marrying her?

This Sunday, Jodi was shocked to hear that I put two dollars in the envelope for church offerings. She thought it was way low; I explained it was all I had, and sometimes I put in a five, but I was never sure exactly what most people do or what was expected.

Then again, I once horrified my aunt when I offered a two-dollar tip on a haircut. I usually went to a six-dollar barber and tipped one, but I knew I was at a classier place so I doubled the tip. My aunt looked at me like I'd just blown my nose with the boss's necktie, and took a few more dollars from my hand and gave them to the hairdresser.

Jodi says she thought it was supposed to be a 10% tithe. If I ever give that much, I want to write a check and get a receipt for tax purposes! She thinks this is pure-dee tacky. I think it's good sense.

I'm also trying to make sense of Deuteronomy 14:25-26, which seems to be saying that I should offer this tithe to God by having a fancy dinner in God's honor. Which I don't object to -- I can see spending two days preparing a feast as a deliberate way to celebrate our blessings. (But I don't think I could spend 10% of my yearly income on it!) Or does this mean I should spend 10% of my income on eating out? I probably *do*.

And then there's 2 Corinthians 8:10-15, which seems to be saying I shouldn't worry about how to carve out an extra 10% from my budget, but I should actually go and set up their spare computer as a web and e-mail server instead of just talking about it.

I dunno; what are y'all's thoughts on all this?

Comments

[tregoweth.livejournal.com]

How much does she tithe?

[sylvar.livejournal.com]

Oh, hush. And fix your timestamp.

[loucheroo.livejournal.com]

My personal thoughts (but keep in mind, please, that i am not following a faith that has mandatory tithing... well, unless you count the exhorbitant fees they charge to belong to a synagogue :P) are that you give what you can at the time. Give what you feel comfortable with. I know that you haven't been feeling great about money lately, and i think it's great that you put in what you did. I always thought that was the point of tithing, right? to help the church to the best of your ability?

As for tipping the hairdresser, i usually do about 20% for my hairdresser. Then again, my hair is impossible to get right, so finding someone who does what i think is a good job deserves a lot...
but again, you give what you're comfortable with, you know? Sorry if that's not helpful...

I always felt that the bible is meant to be a general guideline as opposed to hard and fast rules... that's just me, though. Not the most religious person, you know LOL

[heathrow.livejournal.com]

10% titheing is an unofficial rule in some congregations. If you are going to tithe that much, give them a check and write it off on taxes (charitable donation). It is not tacky to take a tax writeoff. It's assinine to NOT do it.

I tend to tip 20% on a haircut, but that's because mine is hard and I treasure my hairstylist. My hubby tips 15%, and we go to the same person. If you go to a cheap barber, tip 10-15% ($1 is right).

Jodi seems to have interesting relationships with money. They'll change when she earns her own on a regular basis, imo. :)

[pandorable.livejournal.com]

i recommend talking to your pastor about it. i know that when i was attending services regularly i gave what i could, but i was never able to tithe. From what i've read, tithe actually means 10th. it was applied as a tax, a requirement back in the day... If this is something that is weighing on your heart, i'd look into other ways you could tithe, as far as i understand it, it doesn't have to be monetary. Cain and Abel gave fruits of their labor, maybe you could offer computer services to your church.

i found this site... (http://www.mindspring.com/~k.w/tithe/tithe.html)

'how much should Christians give? Each Christian "...should give what he has decided in his own heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." (2 Corinthians 9:7) No set amount or percentage of income is dictated, rather, "...if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what he does not have." (2 Corinthians 8:12) ... law of the tithe. Instead, they should give according to the following four New Testament guidelines. Christian giving should be:
· Proportional to one's income (1 Corinthians 16:2, 2 Corinthians 8:12)
· Consistent (1 Corinthians 16:2)
· Sacrificial (Mark 12:43-44, 2 Corinthians 8:2-3)
· Cheerful (2 Corinthians 9:7) '

[sylvar.livejournal.com]

Ooh! Bless you (and thank you) -- I think your idea is a very good one. "What one has" is skill.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but thanks also for keeping away from bridges and razors. You've helped me today.

[fizzgig-bites.livejournal.com]

Jodi is/has been pissing me off. Now that I have said it, end of discussion. I keep my mouth shut these days.

Deuteronomy 14:25-26 First get a good translation. I hate the Christian translations. It was Hebrew and should have a Hebrew to English translation minus the political issues. It's a pet peeve...big time (not "virgin", it's "young woman"...damn it!)

"According to Jewish law, we are required to give one-tenth of our income to the poor. This is generally interpreted as one-tenth of our net income after payment of taxes. Those who are dependent on public assistance or living on the edge of subsistence may give less; no person should give so much that he would become a public burden."

If you want more than just the little quote, go to Jewish FAQ --One of my favorite sites. Since you are a practicing Christian, I would ask for their interpretation of the rule. This is the Jewish meaning which is Torah plus Midrash but you are quoting a Jewish text so it is relevant.

If all you had was $2 and you donated it, wonderful. My mother and grand mother left the Episcopal church because they were only concerned about money. Grand mom was rejected for the way she dressed during the Great Depression. Religion shouldn't cost anything. If you want to help people, give money or time. It doesn't matter. If you are a farmer, give a corner of your field. If you are a computer whiz, donate time and deduct $65/hour off your taxes (keep a journal, for food, time and mileage). Do kind things in life, it is more meaningful than money.

Keep a log of the money you do donate, write it off your taxes, it is a reward for giving in the first place, take it! If you donate more than $65 (?) total per year, get a receipt. The IRS expects it. Any money is a gift and should be treated as such. There is nothing tacky about claiming a donation with the IRS. The IRS rewards donations but you aren't going to make an money doing it. It's public help the federal government doesn't have to pay for but they will encourage you to do it. Any help for the non-profits is encouraged.

Jodi shouldn't have an issue with the donation since she is not donating it herself. My brief Christian experience also brings up that the money is given in a plain envelope with no markings, hence anonymous.

As for eating out. The "law" was written so that less fortunate and wealth would be balanced. If you are spending 10% of your income feeding, transporting and caring for Jodi, then that has occurred. If you consider Jodi and you together (you receive personal benefit from your generosity) then you are living within your means. Anything extra should help others. If you are living it up at the restaurant, then you should give some to the poor. If you are doing it Friday night, Saturday then you are celebrating the Sabbath which requires celebration but then you have crossed religions. I don't think you are Jewish.

As for tipping, 10-20% is also true at the hair place.

[sylvar.livejournal.com]

The "law" was written so that less fortunate and wealth would be balanced. If you are spending 10% of your income feeding, transporting and caring for Jodi, then that has occurred.

Great insight! Thank you!

[ximinez]

My brief Christian experience also brings up that the money is given in a plain envelope with no markings, hence anonymous.

Or you could just cut a slot in a shoebox and put it somewhere out of the way... ;)

[fizzgig-bites.livejournal.com]

Here is another translation.
JPS

I find it a lot easier to read than KJV etc.

[fizzgig-bites.livejournal.com]

The Jews do that though it is usually in the shape of a house.

[tealfroglette.livejournal.com]

i get paid a lousy seven bucks an hour at the church school. i have a master's degree in ed and should be earning fifteen or more per hour at the rate of my knowledge, exper. and dedication. i don't drop a dime in a basket now because i already give in my opinion half of my salary to the church school so that they can stay afloat.
The times i didn't have enough to make ten percent have also now been covered since i give more than fifty percent.

[tregoweth.livejournal.com]

Oops, JavaScript was turned off. Oh well.

[albatross1.livejournal.com]

Oy! I'm with Les on this, but then you know I'm generally the type to rapidly lose patience with [as I perceive it!] stupidity or rudeness.

It's really none of Jodi's business how much you choose to give or not (or not give). Until she is married to your and/or bringing in a paycheck should she keep opinions like that to herself. Feh.

I also like what other folks have had to say on this.

How about stopping helping her out/feeding her/driving her around, and when she asks why tell her you're saving up to give a more respectable donation to the church? ;)

[sylvar.livejournal.com]

I think you're probably right, although it's worth pointing out that Jodi has been completely financially independent (working full-time and taking a full school load) before -- it just leaves her with no time for anything else. Since Jodi's dad let the rest of his life fall to pieces while he was becoming a nurse anesthetist (more caffeine than sleep, with predictable effects on how he got along with his family), her parents provide some money so that she doesn't have to go through hell to graduate.

And I suspect (in the vein of the excellent I only say this because I love you, q.v.) that her concern was in part a genuine spiritual concern because she knows I didn't grow up going to church.

She was raised Catholic, went to a Presbyterian church, went to a scary Baptist church that convinced her to burn immolate her secular-music CDs, decided eventually that wasn't such a good idea, and has been going mainly to Presbyterian churches since then.

Her mom's priest was horrified to hear that our wedding won't be in a church. When Val explained that Jodi's not Catholic, he looked blank and asked "So... what is she?" I got the impression that he couldn't imagine any other religion other than Satanism. However, I don't believe this, as every priest I've met has been an extremely intelligent and thoughtful man.

"Non-parishable food"? ;)

[segnbora.livejournal.com]

As a member of no church or faith, the $2 seems fine to me. Even more so if it is only an occasional dip down to a low level. (Honestly, if a church actually got 10% of the net income of every member of its congregation, it seems like it would be obscenely rich like the richest monasteries of the Middle Ages.) I grew up with Mom, who enrolled me in Sunday school at St. Joseph's Catholic church but never attended the services herself, so never contributed more than anything required for Sunday school enrollment (I don't know if there was any required fee for it or not). Plenty of churchgoers seem to feel no compunction about stiffing their earthly channel to their God, which is of course one reason why many churches find it so hard to get by. I find it commendable that you give regularly, no matter what the amount. (And if Jodi wants to give more on behalf of you two as a couple, you can write the amount down in that little book of who owes who what, just as if you wrote a check for her sorority dues.)

My opinion

[h-postmortemus.livejournal.com]

Evangelist you claim God speaks through you,
Your restless mouth full of lies gains popularity.
You care not for the old that suffer,
When empty pockets cry from hunger.

Penniless from their generosity,
Sharing their money to quench your greed.
Searching for the answer to their prayers
They cry their last wish of need.
"Save me!"

His spirit lives and breathes in me.
The almighty transformed to your screen.
The meanings lost in its translation,
No holy words, describe his deception.

You say you'll help us find the lord,
Tell me preacher how do you know?
A simple quest for a visible savior,
To lead us through our final prayer.
"Save me!"

Send your donations,
Contribute to the cause.
Luxuries,
Your righteous reward?

Praise the lord, praise God,
Is what you wish to sell.
There is no Heaven without a Hell.

In your mind's eye could you truly believe,
That by giving you can save your soul,
Could you be so naive!
You heal the sick, raise the dead,
You blind the congregation
With the things you say.

Religious blackmail a deceit of trust,
That death will come and all will be lost.

Can you hear the serpents call,
Look deep in those deceiving eyes.
Ignore the writing on the wall,
You should read between the lies.

When doubt subsides his honesty,
An inquiry, is it blasphemy?
Impure the soul, that's made to suffer,
No sermons left to hide or cover,
An empty promise, lie unfulfilled,
To steal a dream or get it killed.
They claim your trip to Heaven's nearby,
You may believe it but Satan wouldn't lie!

--Tom Araya